Hi! I want to go into advertising but I want to know more about the job, etc. I don't know anyone else and I have called quite a few people with no response. Any Glitter Girls in advertising?

Erin

Saying you want to go into advertising is a little like saying you want to go into television: there are a billion -- okay, maybe only a few hundred -- careers within advertising.

What are you thinking? Graphic design? Copywriting? Media? Television ad production? Website design? Ad sales? Traffic?

Do you want to work in a small agency with small clients, or are you hoping to work towards a Madison Avenue gig? Or would you prefer to head up advertising at a newspaper or magazine, for example?

See? There are many, many ways of having a career in advertising.

Direct marketing is a subset of advertising in which almost all the same careers exist, but tweaked for DM.

I was a creative director at a small DM agency with a national client base for several years. My training and background are in copywriting. If you post more specific questions, maybe I or someone else -- I know there are others here on Glitter -- can help you.

Luci

luci_mama: I'm back in school part time for communications with the goal of moving into a position as a creative director. How long did you have to work as a slave copywriter before moving up? What kind of degree did you start out with? Did you move into copywriting through an internship to start?

Oops! I thought I wrote that in there. I really want to be a copywriter and then eventually be the person who pitches campaigns (I can't remember the job title)

Erin

Hi Erin,

I'm a copywriter, but I came about the position the long way, starting in journalism. I also don't work for an agency - I don't know that I could be that creative or targeted on a dime, daily. But there are lots of copy jobs out there, for certain.
Every time I think of agency copywriting, I think of Thirtysomething, the TV show.
Anyhow - if you have any questions that I could assist with, fire 'em off!

Funny you refer to "slave copywriters."

Maybe it's my distance from the field (I've been a full-time mama now for four years), but there's a lotta freedom in being responsible only for the copy, and not for the whole ballgame. Different pressures, and alot less pressure being a lowly CW instead of CD.

And admittedly, sometimes less fun, depending on how your creative team is set up. In my shop, I took lead from my very first CD, who said "a good idea is where you find it" meaning that copywriters sometimes have good design ideas and a designer can sometimes have good copy. I'm biased, of course, so I think the former is true more often than the latter, but at least I admit my bias, right? In any case, we had really fun, really productive brainstorming sessions, out of which came supremely effective materials for our clients.

Getting to your question ... well, it's not that clear, in my case.

Like the last poster to this thread, I started in journalism. Small town/county where I grew up, there were no ad agencies, so I made do by getting every media job I could: I was a reporter for a daily newspaper (INVALUABLE experience writing on daily deadlines, or as I used to refer to them: deadly daylines), I reported and announced for a local radio station, I even sold portraits through Olan Mills -- not what one would normally consider preparation for advertising, but I learned stuff about sales scripts and salespersonship that turned out to be very valuable later, in my DM years.

In high school and as an undergraduate, I had almost every role on our campus newspapers as it was possible to have, from reporter through photographer, layout editor, ad sales manager, and upward to editorial positions. I also wrote a couple of columns, which again, honed my writing skills in ways that, while not specifically advertising, gave me an advantage of people who'd written less in general because they were too focused on "the right job."

Any job you can get is right, if you know how to look at it, how to learn from it.

My first agency position was as an unpaid copy intern at a small-ish regional agency. The secretary there wasn't doing a very good job, so the boss fired her and hired me. As secretary and part-time media buyer. (I HATED media, by the way, but it was a foot in the door, so I took it.) Oh, and by the way, I had a copy chief there who made me write and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite until I wanted to throw things at him. I'm not sure I ever accomplished what he wanted me to, whether he was wanting me to write in a voice more like his, or whether he thought he was giving me my own little private, hellish "medical residency" sort of experience, or what. (Later, he made a very oblique pass at me which I completely missed and then "outed" him unknowingly in a phone conversation with his wife. I was young and stupid and never did figure it out until I got a really horrid, nasty letter from him after I'd sent a Christmas card, accusing me of all sorts of nastiness. Hmm. Caught with his pants down, or at least, with planning to get his pants down. But I digress. More.)

Anyway, after said copy chief left, in time, the boss hired a real secretary and put me into half-time media, half-time copywriting. An odd combination, but he was working his budget and trying to keep me at a full-time wage. By the time he got around to hiring a full-time media buyer, I was going crazy in my already-wrecked first marriage, and I bailed on the agency to go back to grad school. Total full-time copy time? Maybe four months?

Skip ahead: the punchline to grad school was, I didn't get my graduate degree, but I got the divorce decree, which is what I really needed.

Then I got another non-advertising gig that helped me enormously: I worked in a printing company, assisting the owner, working out a time-reporting system to make sure every department, every task, was appropriately billed to its job and client. There I learned a bunch about print production AND about time reporting, both invaluable, again.

Then I felt the need to get out of crazymaking (they put me in sales there, which almost killed me) and get back to copywriting. Started freelancing on a shoestring. Nearly hung myself with it, too, until.....

Towards that CD job ....

At the time I made connections with the DM agency, it was teeny-tiny; more of a mailing house with "free creative services" than anything else. So I started as a very part-time freelance writer for them (since he wasn't charging for my service: about half my time was helping him with the firm's marketing materials), with the owner not realizing what he had on his hands. Within a few months (can't remember and don't have my resume handy), I convinced the man to hire me full-time, and I developed one of the single strongest promotions I ever created: a self-promo for the agency that set the stage for a major blowout in sales of creative services.

Within another year or so, my department -- not the agency itself, but only creative services -- was a million dollar profit center, up from being a liability to the company. By that time it was me, one full-time graphic designer, a part-time intern, and a stable of freelancers.

Nice job if you can stand the heat, and if the organization knows how to handle the rapid growth.

Unfortunately, mine didn't. We burnt out, a shooting star crashing in flames toward the earth.

Now. I've gotta go attend to my kids so I don't have time to edit this and see where the loose ends are. If you've got more questions, ask 'em and I'll try to get back here to answer.

L

Up until the end of last year, I worked as a copywriter in a big ad agency. I was there for three years, and before that I studied for a BA in advertising.

I don't ever want to write ads again, but that's just me. There are a lot of companies that I don't want to support for ethical reasons, and unfortunately, those are the companies that ad agencies seem to want. I also found that advertising is a career where the job doesn't stop when you leave the office -- you think about it all the time, and I personally found it much harder to create things (arts, crafts, etc.) when all that energy was going into my day job. For me, the personal creative things are what I live for...

I certainly don't regret the study I did or working in advertising, because I learned a lot of important things. But my advice is to ask yourself seriously why you really want to work in advertising.

luci_mama, thanks for the response! And thanks khimegirl for your post on working in marketing. I did't have a chance to read the updated thread untill now, but I think it's very very helpful.

Hmm, I already have some professional writing and design experience under my belt, but no degree...almost a year ago, I took an administrative position out of laziness (and because of the relatively high pay and good benefits), but perhaps I should've waited and tried to find a copywriting or design position with the limited portfolio I already have.

Copywriters: what sort of things are in your portfolio (I assume it varies depending on the job you're applying for)? When you started out, did you include non-published writing to show potential employers your capabilities?

Also, and I hope this isn't out of line, the mid-range salary in my area for Jr. Copywriters seems to be around $35K. Does that sound right to you?

I really don't want to end up writing catalog copy or typesetting business cards every day under someone's watchful eye (although I wouldn't mind doing that *part* of the time), and had been poking around to try and find some options where I would have a fair level of creative control and that wouldn't involve long periods of uncertainty/starvation; maybe such a thing doesn't exist? (I would consider freelancing if my parter wasn't also freelancing, but two variable incomes? I don't know, makes me nervous for some crazy reason.)

khimegirl, can you give a more detailed description of your position and maybe some information on the duties of the Marketing Managers you work with?

You guys are so much more helpful than the career description sites I've been looking at the last few months.

I am wondering about promotion opportunities. Once I am a copy writer is that it? Is there no like super copywriter or manager copywriter?

Erin

There are levels like junior copywriter and senior copywriter, so you can (and will) move up in those levels.

I have a few questions:

1) Did you go to college? If so, which one? What was your major?
2) How did you become a copywriter?
3) Did you have an internship as a copy writer?
4) What did you like about copy writing? What didn't you like?
5) What was your typical day like when you were a copy writer?
6) What companies did you copy write for?
7) Where did you work? How big was the company and what was their
speciality?
8) What personal qualities or abilities are important to being successful as a copy writer?
9) Do you have any suggestions to those who want to be a copywriter?

Thanks so much for all of your responses so far. I really appreciate it. It's causing me to think a lot more about the actual field and less about all the glamour that the television and movies make it seem to be.

Erin

Im jumping in because I want to represent the marketing field. I'm one of three marketing coordinator for a medium-sized civil engineering firm. Our responsibilities are to promote the company through a variety of methods and mediums. We are "overseen" by two marketing managers. Strictly speaking, the managers "dream" the ideas and the coordinators make them a reality.

I see marketing and advertising very similar except that I have one client - the company I work for - and all my creative energy goes into selling their products. Having one client suits me because I can apply my creativity in many ways and I can develop an expertise about the industry (civil engineering). I can also choose my client.

But, to answer your questions that apply...

1. I have a BA in journalism and women's studies from Antioch College. I am starting my MS in Marketing in 2004.

2. It took a series of small writing/graphic design jobs and a lot of luck/good timing to get where I am.

3. My college believes in cooperative education so I had lots of internship experience in journalism and marketing.

4. I like the challenges - each project is like a puzzle, it's usually a rectangle but the picture always changes. Work can get really slow in a bad economy and this deoesn't always mean that you will then work harder but will have to be more creative.

5. Are there such things as typical days? Every week is different depending on our assignments and goals. I generally work from 7:30 to 5:30 M-TH and 7:30-11:30 on Fridays.

6/7. I worked for newspapers, trade mags, two colleges, two business, and one non-profit.

8. In any kind of promotion industry (advertising or marketing), this is important: flexibility, ability to take criticism, reliability, creativity, resilience, patience, gumption, tact, and self-motivation.

9. Keep a portfolio and take every opportunity. Keep in mind that this industry requires you work with other people to generate ideas both internally and externally. This can be rough on intelligent and quick-witted people. Be sure that you can handle a complete idiot telling you that your ideas don't work. Also, be nice to administrative staff. You're screwed without them.

This is a really interesting thread!

Does anyone have any advice for someone who's been out of college for 6 years (BA in English/Creative Writing) and trying to begin a career in copy writing/editing? I've been working in a completely unrelated field (human resources) and have not written anything other than news letters and memos since graduating, but I've decided to go into copy writing. I'm taking a one year editing program offered by the University of Washington next fall, but is there anything else I can do in the meantime?

Bump :)